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 Post subject: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:42 pm 
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just wondering.


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:30 pm 
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What's word got 'round that place? I swear it's been like people hinting at my demise.

Ok - I'll cop to this much: I'm definitely looking at reducing my time there, possibly to zero for the time being. It's ironic as hell given that I happen to agree that there are people who, at least in the past, seriously wanted to use the very viral marketing tactics that tend to disrupt a site and are, IMHO, at best disingenuous and at worst downright...schevy is the word my wife would use.

But some things have been said, not even about me, that I can't abide. He-who-can't-hide-his-name has a persona that he seems to need to press. Part of me thinks it's a bit sad; part thinks this is all just his way of generating traffic. I do know that the entire thing with Bill's thread(s) is the paranoid point at which I draw the line.

I've called both Forge folks Swine and more traditional folks swine. I'm probably guilty of it on occasion. But this stuff is silly.

It's why I'm seriously considering re-skinning this place...to be a more broadly appealing site.

I don't even know if I've answered your question...


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Any links to the troublesome threads/posts?

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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:21 pm 
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Like accidents, Mr. G? :lol:

It's difficult to explain - there was a thread about the definition of what could be discussed in which forums. So Hinterwelt started a thread to talk about the mechanics of Forge games. It should be noted that Bill was very specific about not talking theory, he was just interested in the underlying mechanics.

Pundit moved the thread to OT. And when he did, it lit off a chain of events. There are several threads in the Help section about his moderation techniques. Then he quits for a day in a hissy fit. I'd hoped that upon his return he would say something along the lines of "Well, I obviously was too wound up. I feel better. I still will not allow Forge theory, but if people want to discuss the mechanics of forge games they can do it in Design."

Nope. He just got worse, IMHO.

But for me, it was the Free Speech thread. I make a joke, and he gets all over sensitive. I don't hink he's ever gotten over my starting this place, no matter how little of a threat it would be to RPGSite. It was, originally, never intended to be. I thought we had a decent understanding. I guess that was for only as long as he saw me as an "ally" in his "war". Anyway, in that thread he makes it clear that he sees himself, essentially, as the Lord Protector of the Eternal Light of Regular RPGs - whatever that means. And he's on a holy terror over purity in the "polis" right now.

And for me, it crystalized a sense I've been gaining for some time: the RPGSite might have just jumped the shark. We'll see. I know I've given 4,999 posts - over 5 a day on average since I started. Why? Mostly because I ignored the bull for the people. I like the people there - even the ones with whom I disagree. I have only a couple of the trollish on IL; it was a nice setup. I don't know how much more I can give...and I don't think The Little General sees it as me giving - he sees it as him allowing...

So instead, I'll keep up this place, pay more attention to ENWorld and Dragonsfoot and the OD&D boards - and play! I'll still "lurk" over there. And it will be difficult not to comment on this interesting thing or that joke. But I think it's best for all involved...

Hope that helps...


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:23 pm 
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You answered it, and I agree with just about everything you said. Sorry if riled you. I've been thinking of shoving off myself. I have a strange attachment to the place, though, but its fading.

I think reskinning this place is a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Aos wrote:
You answered it, and I agree with just about everything you said. Sorry if riled you. I've been thinking of shoving off myself. I have a strange attachment to the place, though, but its fading.

I think reskinning this place is a good idea.

And when I say "re-skinning", I mean making it about more than just d20 (D&D) roleplaying. That is, honestly, my interest. It's difficult for me to branch out, not in play (I'd love to try GURPS and some Sci-Fi and hey I played in Hinterwelt's Shades Of Earth on a Game Day), but in discussion.

But I'd like a place with much of the feel of the RPGSite without quite as much vitriol (though that's not a huge deal) but with much less separation of games and gamers. You want to talk about the Mechanics of Burning Wheel? No skin off my nose. Want to talk about how to resolve tasks in Sorcerer? Have at it.

Want to talk "theory" - either understand that any theory that assumes people were damaged and/or deluded is a failure from the word go and proceed accordingly, or be ready to be called on the carpet by an intelligent group of people. At least, that would be my hope.

Eh...we'll see. I'd have to change a few things and I want to keep the existing posts..so...


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Jim wrote:
Aos wrote:
You answered it, and I agree with just about everything you said. Sorry if riled you. I've been thinking of shoving off myself. I have a strange attachment to the place, though, but its fading.

I think reskinning this place is a good idea.

And when I say "re-skinning", I mean making it about more than just d20 (D&D) roleplaying. That is, honestly, my interest. It's difficult for me to branch out, not in play (I'd love to try GURPS and some Sci-Fi and hey I played in Hinterwelt's Shades Of Earth on a Game Day), but in discussion.

But I'd like a place with much of the feel of the RPGSite without quite as much vitriol (though that's not a huge deal) but with much less separation of games and gamers. You want to talk about the Mechanics of Burning Wheel? No skin off my nose. Want to talk about how to resolve tasks in Sorcerer? Have at it.

Want to talk "theory" - either understand that any theory that assumes people were damaged and/or deluded is a failure from the word go and proceed accordingly, or be ready to be called on the carpet by an intelligent group of people. At least, that would be my hope.

Eh...we'll see. I'd have to change a few things and I want to keep the existing posts..so...


Sounds good to me. I know you don't like the cussing too much, so I'd have to make an adjustment, but I could probably manage. This latest round of the endlessly repetitive drama cycle has got me down. I've been with the place since before the pundit took over, but man it's all kinds of tired now.


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:20 am 
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Jim wrote:
Like accidents, Mr. G? :lol:


I was more interested if anything had changed. From skimming through the links, IMO nothing had except Pundit went off on Hinterwelt's mastery of passive-aggressive posting. My only surprise is that it took that long. The rest was Pundit being Pundit. He's not happy unless he's at war with something, and with the Forge and its ideas fading from the scene any 'something' will do. All he needs is a little bit of truth that he can grab hold of and then expand by lie and character assasination to encompass everything else that causes him the least discomfort.

For what it's worth, it's likely a good idea to give up therpgsite. It is a toxic place, due to Pundit and others there. I'm liking Blogs much better for my RPG fix these days.

I feel your planned attempt to expand this site will likely end badly. Either it won't go anywhere, or it will and then you're end up in the hot seat- either watching your board go up in flames like therpgsite or moderating and being called a baby rpg.net. It's grief you don't need.

Blogs is where it's at.

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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:32 am 
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gleichman wrote:
I was more interested if anything had changed. From skimming through the links, IMO nothing had except Pundit went off on Hinterwelt's mastery of passive-aggressive posting. My only surprise is that it took that long. The rest was Pundit being Pundit. He's not happy unless he's at war with something, and with the Forge and its ideas fading from the scene any 'something' will do. All he needs is a little bit of truth that he can grab hold of and then expand by lie and character assasination to encompass everything else that causes him the least discomfort.

Aside from our disagreement over Hinterwelt's posting style, I disagree that The Nameless One even needs a little bit of truth! :lol:

gleichman wrote:
For what it's worth, it's likely a good idea to give up therpgsite. It is a toxic place, due to Pundit and others there. I'm liking Blogs much better for my RPG fix these days.

Agreed. Or at least, it seems to have finally become so for me. I don't know if I'm just getting old and tired or what. But it's gone beyond the allowed use of blatant hostility to make a point to the use of blatant hostility for it's own sake, IMHO.

gleichman wrote:
I feel your planned attempt to expand this site will likely end badly. Either it won't go anywhere, or it will and then you're end up in the hot seat- either watching your board go up in flames like therpgsite or moderating and being called a baby rpg.net. It's grief you don't need.

This is undoubtedly likely. Much of what I attempt in life ends badly. It's why I'm amazed every day to be married to the woman to whom I am married and to have a couple of pretty decent kids (no matter how much I might complain about them).

I was thinking, this morning, about your suggestion. I had a blog at one time, being a bit of an experiment for me - I set up the server at my house, got the static IP and all that happy horse hockey. It's still there, though I haven't updated it for years, I think. Most of my writing at that time was in response to the Iraq War and so forth.

But here's the thing. I like Blogs. I love yours and Zach's and several other gaming ones. Lot's of good and cool information. But I think the comment approach doesn't give the level of conversation I tend to prefer. I think it can give some good feedback, but it always seems more disjointed to me. I doubt it's true - that is, I'm sure this is just a preferential thing and not some objective verifiable fact - but its my preference.

So for now, I'll keep this place going and perhaps expand it a bit. While I'm not thrilled about the possibility of swearing, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I have explained to my kids - who now have memberships here - the reasons they should avoid those words the least of which is the punishment that will ensue...so. But I do like a lively debate (I wish they didn't degrade into personal attacks so quickly).

Which is a long way to say I appreciate the advice and while I think in the long run you might be right, I'll tough it out for a bit more. But it did give me the idea that I need to set up a Sticky in the General forum with a list of blogs....


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:28 am 
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Jim wrote:
gleichman wrote:
Aside from our disagreement over Hinterwelt's posting style, I disagree that The Nameless One even needs a little bit of truth! :lol:


Pundit does need a bit, not much mind you. But he needs a bit. It's what he prides himself on. Big Lies are much easier when they are wrapped around a pinch of truth. It's allows him to claim his high ground (at least in his own mind, or that of his made-up online mind- whichever).

As for Hinterwelt, it should have been clear from the start that Pundit wouldn't approve of the thread and would have negative things to say. That he went ahead and posted it on Pundit's board instead of seeking the information at other sites or from reviews tells me that Hinterwelt was either looking for the fight he got, or that he's completely clueless with dealing with people online.

Take your pick. Either may be the case and both are serious flaws.



Jim wrote:
But here's the thing. I like Blogs. I love yours and Zach's and several other gaming ones. Lot's of good and cool information. But I think the comment approach doesn't give the level of conversation I tend to prefer. I think it can give some good feedback, but it always seems more disjointed to me. I doubt it's true - that is, I'm sure this is just a preferential thing and not some objective verifiable fact - but its my preference.


Here I will agree with you. They don't give the same level of conversation. Mostly because they tend to be visited only by people who are interested in reading the author in the first place. So they tend to be much more agreeable. Blogs are also effectively people's homes, so I don't go to theirs and raise a stink and I expect the same of others coming to mine.

The result is that you won't see the type of debate you do on message boards, and you may not see opposing ideas either. What you will get is generally a calm presentation of the author's viewpoint unmarred by personal conflicts that tilt the message boards.

In any case, good luck with reskinning the site no matter my doubts. Hang tough and don't make promises up front that conditions of the future might give good cause to break. Btw, will you be changing the site name?

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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:44 am 
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Jim wrote:
Aos wrote:
You answered it, and I agree with just about everything you said. Sorry if riled you. I've been thinking of shoving off myself. I have a strange attachment to the place, though, but its fading.

I think reskinning this place is a good idea.

And when I say "re-skinning", I mean making it about more than just d20 (D&D) roleplaying. That is, honestly, my interest. It's difficult for me to branch out, not in play (I'd love to try GURPS and some Sci-Fi and hey I played in Hinterwelt's Shades Of Earth on a Game Day), but in discussion.

But I'd like a place with much of the feel of the RPGSite without quite as much vitriol (though that's not a huge deal) but with much less separation of games and gamers. You want to talk about the Mechanics of Burning Wheel? No skin off my nose. Want to talk about how to resolve tasks in Sorcerer? Have at it.

Want to talk "theory" - either understand that any theory that assumes people were damaged and/or deluded is a failure from the word go and proceed accordingly, or be ready to be called on the carpet by an intelligent group of people. At least, that would be my hope.

Eh...we'll see. I'd have to change a few things and I want to keep the existing posts..so...

Seriously, let me know if you will be acting on this for obvious reasons. It will only benefit both of us.

Oh, and I am glad that this site does not devolve to personal attacks out the gate either...ahem...
Quote:
Hinterwelt's mastery of passive-aggressive posting

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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:06 am 
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Oh...trust me... I didn't mean to imply this site doesn't; only that I wish any of these disagreements didn't. There's no way to stop it, particularly when two or more people have set up a dynamic from which there is no retreat.

I'm not out to change human nature. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not that naive or stupid...

Well, we should talk...


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:28 pm 
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I still love you. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: So jim, have you abandoned therpgsite?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:33 pm 
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And the feeling is moochle....

That's the difficult part - there are tons of people with whom I would still love to communicate.

Alas...


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